00:01
Peter Credlin, live from News 24.
00:08
good evening welcome to the program great to have your company here's what's coming up tonight on the show chris bowen's climate hypocrisy lavish overseas travel stuff was tabled today of course our taxpayer funded fiji summit and most leaders in the world are saying no we don't want to come and the growing cost of chasing net zero aid morrison with all that in a moment plus more fallout too from victoria's damning ibac report And why critics say the watchdog's toothless. A former New South Wales Supreme Court judge joins me.
00:39
He'll outline what must change if Victoria is serious about cleaning up corruption. Questions over the safety and security of our politicians too. A rise in threats from the radical left.
00:52
Plus, while Tony Burke's got a battle on his hands to get Labor's migration policy through Cabinet, Pauline Hanson today, well, she's made her points on open borders very clear.
01:03
So I don't care what people think, whether, you know, it's going to affect their businesses, they're not going to sell that many products or the universities because they won't have the number of foreign students coming in here. I don't care. My concern is for those Australians that can't get a roof over their head and a decent standard of living and way of life.
01:23
We will stay on this issue because Labor's in a world of pain over migration. For too long, they've used record high migration as a way to pump prime their faltering budget position, to artificially spike growth numbers, to make things look better than they really are, to avoid a technical recession. But that strategy is coming unstuck, as every Ponzi scheme eventually does. And this time it's got as much about a cultural impact of mass migration that's loading the polling pressure on Labor as much as it is the hit on households.
01:59
Because much as migration can mask a bad budget, and under the Albanese government, up until now that's what's happened, eventually it hurts people at a per capita basis, when the unplanned arrival of millions hits housing, employment and social cohesion. In per capita terms, so that's GDP per person, Australia is going backwards. And as the polls show, people have woken up as to why. It's not just parties on the centre-right feeling the high migration backlash, but now also Labor.
02:37
And that's what's got Tony Burke, the Home Affairs Minister, so spooked that he's acting.
02:44
At least he was acting until he hit a brick wall at Cabinet on Monday. Having got ahead of himself, Burke had booked a spot today at the National Press Club, all set to deliver what had been briefed out as a major speech on migration, replete with speculated changes to targets and new rules for asylum seekers, until he was rolled.
03:08
Well, let's be really clear about what happened here. Tony Burke arrogantly booked in a National Press Club address to announce a new policy which he had not yet got Cabinet approval for. He took it to Cabinet on Monday. He got rolled at Cabinet by his colleagues who forced him to cancel his speech on Thursday in a public humiliation of the Minister for Home Affairs because he hadn't done the work and it wasn't yet ready to be publicly announced. For a very senior cabinet minister and a very seriously experienced politician like Tony Burke, this is about as embarrassing as it gets.
03:47
And I really start to question whether the government even has a plan to follow through on their announcement that they want to reduce migration from the budget nearly four months ago now. Because this is what this is about. This is about achieving the targets they've failed to meet every other financial year.
04:03
The reality is that Labor has never once met any of its migration targets. Every year it puts out a set of forecasts that every year arrivals into Australia exceed them. Indeed, since the Albanese government was elected, this has meant the entry of millions into this country. Now, partly it's the fake budget hit that I mentioned above, the Ponzi scheme that big migration numbers do to the budget. But Labor's also used mass migration as a way to buy itself more votes.
04:34
Because as soon as people land here, Labor can't wait to make them citizens. And in the mass events held by Burke just prior to last year's election, also sign them up as quickly as they can as voters.
04:49
Until that was, the polls turned against them. This is why Burke's panicking, even though Cabinet's left faction is pushing back. James Patterson again.
05:02
Well, it's definitely about politics. This is a government that was very happy to bring in one and a half million people over the first few years of their time in office. But now that it has become a political problem for them, they are desperately running around looking for a solution. And the kind of things that Tony Burke apparently proposed to Cabinet, which his colleagues have pushed back on, are the kind of things that... The Labor Party has criticised Conservative governments for contemplating doing in the past, including restricting the appeal rights in the asylum system, including forcing people offshore to make applications, including, you know, really cracking down on appeals and applications.
05:38
I mean, these are the kind of things that no one joins the Labor Party to do. If they are contemplating doing them, the only reason can be because of politics. They don't sincerely believe in these kind of tough changes.
05:50
Well, that's the coalition refusing to buy Labor's newfound support for sensible migration. Also refusing to buy it is One Nation leader Pauline Hanson. If anyone thinks she'll let Labor try and rebrand themselves as somehow tough on migration, well, forget it.
06:09
They're scared to do anything. But based on, really, the one issue is mass migration that's happening in Australia. So Tony Burke is saying, hey, I really need to pull back on my speech that I was going to give at the press club because he's got to appease the unions, he's got to appease the other left-leaning in his party as well, and the Greens. So he's got a battle on his hands.
06:34
Look, if nothing else, what's happening now is that finally we Australians are having the long overdue debate on migration that you have been demanding for years.
06:47
And that in the end is a good thing.
06:55
Right, and this today too. Weeks and weeks after the offensive segment first aired and days after the woman who created it gave a half-hearted apology of her own, ABC Managing Director Hugh Marks finally bit the bullet and apologised for airing highly offensive rape-based content regarding Mrs Gina Reinhart. Not that the communications minister had anything to do with it. Just hours before the ABC apology, Arnica Wells refused to even say that one was warranted.
07:28
My personal view is that that was unacceptable, but it's not for me to make that determination. It's for the Ombudsman to do so. And I'll anticipate your next question, Harry. If the Ombudsman finds that, like in my view, it's unacceptable, it would be appropriate for the ABC to issue an apology. But what's important is that that process plays out first. And that's what any news publisher would expect the Minister for Communications to act in this process.
07:53
Well, she wasn't alone. All those Labor MPs fence-sitting, unwilling to demand the ABC do the right thing, indeed saying that they've never seen the tape. I mean, please.
08:04
I haven't seen the clip that you're referring to. It's not a show that I watch.
08:07
I want to be clear, I've not seen the video and I don't intend to watch it.
08:10
From what's been described to me, it is unacceptable.
08:15
At least Labor's Peter Khalil was honest enough to call it out for what it was.
08:22
It's unacceptable. Like, no matter who it is, whether you agree or you disagree with the person, that kind of violent imagery and that misogynist imagery, it would not be accepted for any of my colleagues in the parliament who are women.
08:36
Well, good on him.
08:38
The public outrage about the segment was real, absolutely, but don't think for a minute that's what's prompted the ABC's change of heart today. After all, the ABC doesn't care about the public, or ratings for that matter, given its billion-dollar yearly budget is guaranteed whether people watch it or they don't. Now, what finally saw the ABC do the decent thing here was the threat of legal action from a businesswoman with very, very deep pockets. And even the apology today came with barbs, like this.
09:11
Hugh Marks declaring that, while the Ombudsman's found the film did not breach the ABC's editorial policies, the ABC acknowledges the episode's fallen short of community expectations.
09:23
Now, what sort of editorial policies does the ABC have if it thinks that naming and threatening a woman with anal rape and associated violence is not a breach of them, that instead it's comedy, it's satire? It's not satire. It's sadistic. And the ABC, well, they know the difference.
09:44
The ABC's problems with bias are systemic. The ABC's waste of taxpayer billions is legendary. I mean, I was the ABC advisor for Richard Allstone when he was the Communications Minister under John Howard. I was also the Chief of Staff to Helen Coonan when she held the same portfolio a few years later. And I've now come to the position that the ABC should no longer be supported by the taxpayer purse.
10:12
If people want to watch it or listen to it, good on them. They should access it now via a subscription service. Because like you, I can think of far better ways to spend that $1.2 billion every year.
10:32
An hour back to Victoria and the release of the corruption watchdog's report into Operation Richmond. New Premier Ben Carroll hid from genuine scrutiny yesterday, holding a quick and dirty press conference at exactly the same time as the IBAC commissioner was handing down her bombshell report into the Andrews government and backroom deals with the firefighters union. And that was so he wouldn't have to answer any tough questions.
11:03
I have not read the report. I'll be reading the report tonight. It has been tabled in the Parliament while I'm here. I'm going to read the report carefully. I'm going to study it and give the Victorians the action and the answers they deserve.
11:17
Did you time this press conference specifically to avoid taking questions on this matter? You knew it was being tabled at 9.30 this morning.
11:25
No, this was always in my diary.
11:29
Well, today, when we all assumed the report would have been read and Carol would front the cameras, he hid away again.
11:38
Instead, sending out a colleague to take the media hits, and if you can believe it, they hadn't found time to read the report either.
11:46
Have you read the report? I've been catching up on my new portfolio and I have been starting to get into this report.
11:54
Are you interested to read it? Do you think you'll learn anything?
11:56
I think we can always learn from our recommendations that are made from IBAC and the observations that they make. And I think that all of us will have a read.
12:07
I mean, look at the game here. State and federal. This is the new playbook from Labor. I haven't seen it about the Gina Reinhart skittle. I haven't read it about the IBAC report.
12:19
Ben Carroll can't be credible on crime and corruption, saying that he'll root it out, that integrity isn't optional anymore under his leadership if he can't front the cameras and address a report into a government where he sat around the table as a senior member of Cabinet. Now, worse still, the public servant named hundreds of times in the report remains tonight the head of the Education Department in Ben Carroll's new government.
12:49
At the very least, Tony Bates should have been sacked and Carroll should have had the guts today to front the media.
12:56
By the end of the day yesterday, Ben Carroll should have sacked Mr Bates. What did the Premier do? He claimed he hadn't read the report. He then hid for the rest of the day. He's hidden again today.
13:14
I'll say it again. You can change the leader in Victoria, but you can't change Labor.
13:23
All right, let's go to Canberra now.
13:24
For the headlines, our political reporter, Trudy McIntosh.
13:29
The ABC has finally apologised to Gina Reinhart over a controversial segment that depicted a violent assault of the mining magnate. It was part of the Race Around the World program. Gina Reinhart had asked for an apology and threatened legal action. The matter was referred to the ABC Ombudsman. On Thursday, Managing Director Hugh Marks released this statement. While the Ombudsman has found that the film did not breach the ABC's editorial policies, the ABC acknowledges the episode has fallen short of community expectations. The ABC apologises to Mrs Reinhart and to anyone else affected or upset by the publication of the film.
14:04
Parliament returns here next week and Labor is facing an uphill battle to get its gambling reforms through the Senate. The changes appear friendless. The Coalition joined the Greens in demanding major reform, including stopping inducements. Labor has been pressed on whether it's really willing to walk away from these reforms if it doesn't get its way.
14:22
We are some ways away from that. We're having constructive discussions. I'll continue to do that with my counterparts. We'd love to see this passed.
14:28
And I think a sensible balance can be struck here.
14:30
The acting Prime Minister Richard Miles in Darwin today. He can't escape questions, though, about why Luke Gosling is still a special envoy, despite facing assault allegations. News 24 has been told not everyone in Cabinet is happy with the decision.
14:44
There is a legal process underway in relation to Luke, so I'm limited in what I can say, but there's also a presumption of innocence.
14:54
Also today, Labor's Ed Husic is taking leave after he was involved in a serious car accident with a truck on Sydney's M7 on Tuesday night. The MP was taken to hospital with minor cuts, fractures and concussion. Trudy McIntosh, News 24, Canberra.
15:11
All right, let's get across all those headlines and more and bring in my panel now, National Affairs Editor at The Daily Telegraph, News 24 host James Morrow, and the Deputy Executive Director at the IPA, Dan Wild. Dan, we'll get into the internal ructions inside Labor in a moment, but Tony Burke cancelling that press club address today. Just more ammo for Pauline Hanson. Have a listen.
15:35
Why bring in some people that don't fit the needs that we want in Australia? We don't need any more Uber drivers, nail technicians, dog walkers. These people, gone. Stop all that. So I don't care what people think, whether it's going to affect their businesses, they're not going to sell that many products or the universities because they won't have the number of foreign students coming in here. I don't care.
16:01
Clearly, Dan, this is biting into Labor's private polling now. That's the only reason they would try to take anything to Cabinet.
16:12
Well, that's right. We know that this is a government that has been driven by politics and politics only when it comes to immigration. And their program's been a total disaster. I mean, you outlined the economic disaster with the per capita growth going backwards for 10 out of 15 quarters. We know the social problems, the political problems that have come from that as well. So, look, what's happening here, as you well know, is we've seen this all across the Western world. We've seen it in the UK where Nigel Farage, the insurgency force, decimated the Tories, and then he started taking all of the Labor voters in the regions and the outer parts of the major cities who'd had a gutful of mass migration.
16:48
We saw it in the US where Trump won in 2016, in large part because he won a whole bunch of Democratic voters who maybe had never voted Republican ever before, but listened to Trump's message on immigration and said, we need to have a change. And that's clearly happening here now in Australia. What I find interesting politically, Peter, is you've got probably half the Labor Party who probably understand this is a problem. You know, these are outer suburban people with a lot of blue collar working class voters who don't want this anymore. But you've got a bunch of wokesters as well in the inner cities who want mass migration. They believe that multiculturalism is a force for good because they want to dilute Australian culture, because they believe Australia is a bad, racist country.
17:26
So how on earth they're actually going to get a sensible immigration policy out of that cabinet, I don't know. And I don't think Tony Burke's going to be able to get the job done.
17:36
Yeah, the old Labor right, James, would have backed sensible migration. They've been rolled by the Labor left and consistently that's occurred obviously on Monday with Tony Burke. But it's like that battle overnight in Michigan where the socialist radical left are changing the face of the Democrats as well.
17:53
Yeah, and that race in Michigan that you allude to is really fascinating because, you know, what happens in America, we see eventually land in Australia as well. And what we've seen over there is this Democrat socialist politics. It's basically, you know, a hard left socialist politics twinned with a free Palestine, Gaza kind of Muslim Brotherhood adjacent style of politics that ties very closely to Islam. Now, a Muslim candidate there in Michigan has won. Michigan has a huge Muslim population. He's very radical. very radical on Israel.
18:24
He beat a Democrat establishment candidate who, as you say, Peter, would have been basically like, you know, a labor right type, pro-industry, pro-worker, pro-America.
18:34
And now the politics on the left there are now entirely, you know, not just anti-America, but anti-American. And I think that's where you're going to wind up seeing a push on the left coming from, you know, we already saw that happen with Tony Burke and what happened to him in cabinet. Well, it's just going to get worse here, I suspect.
18:51
Let's go back to IBAC in Victoria and Ben Carroll, who yesterday hadn't read the report and today was hiding under his desk.
19:01
What did the Premier do? He claimed he hadn't read the report. He then hid for the rest of the day. He's hidden again today.
19:12
You can't say you want to be tough on corruption if you can't read the report, you can't front the cameras, Dan, and you can't tell us what you're going to fix.
19:23
Exactly, and you can't say that you're going to stand up for integrity. I mean, this was his big pitch, right, that he's going to be Mr Integrity. Well, he's already failed that. And, look, the issue here is that Ben Carroll was a very senior and influential member of the Andrews government and the Allen government.
19:41
Did he seriously not know about any of this? I'm not saying he's necessarily implicated in it all, but if you want to be a man of integrity and of leadership, then you needed to have done the right thing at the time. He also stood by at best during COVID when the schools were locked down. Now, he's immigration minister. All the schools were closed and all of the damage that has done to children and the next generation. There's been no accountability. There's been no apology. There's been no acceptance that anything has been done wrong. So... Look, ultimately, he started his premiership by saying he's different.
20:14
I'm not Andrews. I'm not Alan. I'm going to lead a different kind of government, basically saying you can trust me more than you can trust anyone else to fix the state. But I've got to say the fact that he's been running and hiding is, you know, it's already raising some serious questions in voters' minds about whether he is actually any different from the other two that came before him.
20:36
I'll get into the big spending from Chris Bowen on international junkets in a moment, but this story that's broken this afternoon about the Prime Minister quietly charging taxpayers for a family trip. It looks like he used family reunion to bring his adult son down to Canberra for the budget. Now, I think this is pretty extraordinary. The son's 25. As I understand it, he's working now. Why on earth, James Morrow, are taxpayers paying for this?
21:08
Well, I have absolutely no idea. But as a taxpayer, this is the sort of thing that absolutely infuriates me. You know, every month when I get paid and when everybody else who's a pay-as-you-go taxpayer gets paid, they take a huge chunk of all of the money that you make and say, well, we need it for all these important things. And some of those important things include, apparently, flying the 25-year-old kid of the prime minister who makes something like a half a million dollars a year, I guess from Sydney to Canberra, which is not the most expensive flight in the world.
21:44
Why can't the prime minister put his own hand in his own pocket or Nathan put his own hand in his own pocket for a ticket down to Canberra or just get in the car and drive? It is absolutely infuriating and it is these little things things. I think much more than, you know, billions of dollars in waste of the NDIS or things like this that really aggravate people because, you know, those are the things that you can identify with. And you can think, why is he doing this? He's on a half million dollars a year. It's infuriating.
22:13
And he's got two luxury homes and he's got a car provided by the taxpayer. I could go on. The Prime Minister costs us millions and millions a year. The son's not a dependent. He's 25 years of age. I left home at 18. I mean, come on, mate. Grow up, put your hand in your own pocket, pay your own way.
22:32
Let's go, if I can, down to those comments from One Nation. Senator Malcolm Roberts, these are the latest... praising American conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, who, amongst other things, claimed that the Sandy Hook massacre was staged.
22:48
But Alex Jones is well respected by many people. You know, he was wrong about Sandy Hook. He was wrong about 9-11. But I talked to him about COVID. He and I were both right. Talked to him about digital ID. He and I are both right. Talked to him about climate fraud. He and I are both correct.
23:07
OK, so he admits he was wrong on Sandy Hook, but this is a real headache for Pauline Hanson. Have a listen to her response today.
23:14
We get a lot of people contacting our officers and talking about chemtrails. You've got to understand Malcolm Roberts is always that scientist that comes out of him and I want to see the data. Everything that he talks about, show me the data.
23:29
But Alex Jones was, you know, he denied that Sandy Hook even happened as a big conspiracy theory, so I think that might concern a few people.
23:36
Yeah, correct. There's a few issues here that have been raised, brought to my attention and until I can sit down and have a talk with Malcolm next week with regards to it to get to the bottom of the matter, I will do that next week when we're in Canberra.
23:50
Well, first of all, Dan, I want to be a fly on the wall for that one, but she's not happy with him.
23:55
I think she has to really be credible now. She is playing in the big league. She's had some crazy lunatics in her party before. Some have left her their own accord. Some she's had to show the door.
24:06
I honestly think now I'm at the point where she has got to cut him loose if she wants her brand to be credible.
24:15
Well, I'm not sure Malcolm Roberts was agreeing with those statements by Alex Jones, at least from that clip. That's not what I got from it. But I do take the broader point that what Australians want and what the country really needs is for one nation, but also every political party to be focused on the big issues that they face, and certainly any distraction from that would be a huge issue.
24:36
So I think this is an issue that probably all parties have to deal with. If they move from being a smaller party and a more minor party to something going into the mainstream, they are going to get more scrutiny, as they should. I think what Senator Hanson said there was pretty fair enough. So, you know, what do Australians want? Well, they want to focus on cutting immigration to getting rid of the net zero madness and to making sure Australian values are front and centre in our public life. You know, if One Nation can stick to that, then they're going to keep doing pretty well in the polls.
25:05
Yeah, James Morrow, though, I think people also want One Nation to be credible now and to keep their place as a real force.
25:12
And if they're dragged down by stuff like this, even though I know she's loyal and even though I know they have a history, then it takes One Nation out of the equation. We're back to the two major parties. And I think a lot of people are showing poll by poll that they want this sort of contest.
25:28
Yeah, look, I think people want that contest. I think the key for One Nation is really just to show themselves as being both professional and outsider. And that's the way they're going to have to go. Be really careful about their candidates, you know, not just Malcolm, but in general, because all of that just creates noise that the media hops on and that distracts from their key message.
25:49
Yeah, I haven't had him on my show ever, and there's a reason for that. I'll leave it there. Thank you both. Fresh from the Press Club speech yesterday, where he faced increased scrutiny over Labor's failure to get anywhere near their 2030 emissions targets. Chris Bowen's now facing heat over his globe-trotting travel expenses. And that Fiji climate junket that almost everyone in the world is invited to have said, sorry, mate, we're not coming. Boeing's latest spending released by the Parliamentary Expenses Authority shows he spent some $345,000 in international travel.
26:23
Have a look at that screen. $41,000 for six days in Germany and Singapore, $7,000 for just one night in New Zealand, nine days in the US, well, that's cost you over $100,000. On and on and on it goes.
26:40
Those costs are extraordinary. Now he wants this summit in Fiji. No one wants to go. It's all unbelievable. We're cutting private health rebates, aren't we, for seniors? And yet this bloke can't stop spending. Joining me now, the Director of Energy at the Centre for Independent Studies, Aidan Morrison. Aidan, quick to tell all of us, you know, lower your emissions, Australia. Well, here's carbon footprints out of control. So too is that level of spending. How on earth is it justified?
27:12
Look, he's absolutely committed to being this kind of global leader. He clearly wants to be the top of some headline script that looks very important on some media coverage. So leading that international charge that is trying to reduce carbon emissions is the job that he wants. But clearly he's actually meant to be in charge of the country that's proving that it can't be done without enormous increases in our power prices. So I'm just kind of appalled that he's still so committed to trotting around the international stage where he's not really taking responsibility for the clear failures of his own policy in Australia which have been promised to lower prices and everything that he's doing is pushing prices up in Australia and really making it hard for industry to get ahead in Australia.
27:55
So it's disappointing to see that kind of posturing, taking his time, attention as well as the carbon emissions and the money but That money is trivial compared to the waste that is occurring in the energy system at the moment, the enormous subsidies that we're paying, which are what really grinds my gears.
28:13
Yeah, we'll just go to that because he really was digging in yesterday when pressed about the emissions targets at the press club. Have a listen.
28:19
He said you would reach the 82% renewable target. That task looks very difficult. Will it be on you if Labor fails to meet any more of its climate action KPIs in the next four years? No.
28:31
Well, I mean, as I said, thank you for the question, Elizabeth. But as I said, we are making very good progress on many elements of our transition. There's others where we're facing headwinds, which we've always been frank about. We've faced the international circumstances of now two global energy shocks in our four years, which is historically a high proportion. Australians knew that in 2025. They knew what we'd said in 2022. They knew our record and they asked us to keep going. Obviously, if you ask the question, is it on me? Yes.
28:59
Right. That's the spin, Aidan. Give us the facts.
29:04
Look, he's absolutely clutching at straws there, trying to say there's headwinds on some things, but other parts are going well. The reality is the only thing that is moving in the energy transition, he's calling it, is household adoption of batteries, which he has thrown the most insane level of subsidies at. Spending, initially, he thought it'd be $2.3 billion. After six months, he'd spent all of that. It was meant to last four years. And the projections took it to $14 billion, and he tapered it back down to about $7 billion. So the amount of money that's been splashed to try to drive this household uptake of batteries is just enormous.
29:37
But the truth in the field is that the grid scale solar has completely stalled, unless it's got government underwriting revenue guarantees, basically, and wind is completely dead. There's only one wind project being built in New South Wales at the moment and everything else, and he acknowledged this as well. So basically onshore wind...
29:56
He's going nowhere. Offshore wind is basically dead and he blamed global forces for that. Hydrogen, of course, going nowhere. So all these promises that he has absolutely bet the farm on for our energy future have come to nothing. And yet he's still trying to basically scrape together sort of threads of an optimistic story by splashing enormous subsidies of cash to keep household solar and batteries moving.
30:23
Just quickly, obviously data centres, he was talking tough yesterday about them saying he'll basically override the states.
30:29
A lot of public servants contacted me, senior ones out of Canberra that I know, and said that constitutionally this is a real problem for his plan.
30:39
That's absolutely right. And I think that we saw actually some of the journalists get up and they were trying to ask the question too, obviously quite bewildered, like, you know, what do you mean you'll legislate? Under what head of power exactly, Chris? Because the states have pretty clear authority to plan how they use their land. They've got total authority to... to manage their own energy needs and uses as well, and industries. So they're going to have to find some very creative kind of loophole for the government to actually legislate. So Chris Bowen's kind of, again, being totally out of step for where his powers did and didn't extend.
31:12
And it seemed like really quite determined and a little bit menacing for him to sort of say, look, we will just legislate, just watch us. So No one could figure out exactly what he's going to do there, but he thinks that he can use his power. He's absolutely incensed that other states want to continue to use whatever fuel is available and the investors want to use. So it looks incredibly out of step, quite autocratic that he's trying to reach into and intervene in what is normally state powers.
31:41
I'll leave it there. Thank you, Aidan. After the break, more on the IBAC reporter out of Victoria. So is this it for Daniel Andrews off scot-free? We'll see after the break.
31:56
Welcome back. They are flooding in, your flags, your images that you photographed and sent to me on email. Australian flags flying with pride right around our wonderful nation. I'll show you those in a moment. But now to more fallout from the damning IBAC report into Dan Andrews' era firefighter negotiations released yesterday after an extensive eight-year probe. Here to discuss it in more detail, retired New South Wales Supreme Court judge and chair of the Centre for Public Integrity, Anthony Wheelie. Anthony, thank you for your time.
32:28
I'll ask you at the outset, if the same things happened in New South Wales as detailed in the report tabled yesterday, would they meet the definition of corruption?
32:42
Well, I think the definition of corrupt conduct in New South Wales is very wide.
32:47
I often think it can be summarised by four propositions. Does the conduct constitute a breach of public trust? I think in this case, the conduct that's unearthed in the IBAC inquiry would conceivably amount to a breach of public trust. Secondly, I think it would constitute possibly an abuse of office.
33:12
It could also constitute quite easily a serious breach of the codes of conduct in Victoria. And finally, I think it's conduct that obviously and clearly undermines public confidence in government and public administration. All those things put together, I think the answer to your question is yes.
33:35
Plenty of analysis yesterday and comments indeed from the IBAC Commissioner about how constrained they were in terms of pursuing corruption, as you discuss. Have we got a toothless tiger in Victoria?
33:52
Well, I do think it has some serious deficiencies. The first one is that...
33:58
The definition of corrupt conduct, as I've said, is very narrow. It was introduced by the Baylor government in about 2011, 2012, There was a lot of criticism at the time saying, well, why don't you make it wider like other states, territories and the like? So if we look around the country at the moment, we've got New South Wales, Queensland, Northern Territory, ACT and the federal NAC too. They've all got this wider definition of corrupt conduct, but Victoria's languishing with this very narrow one.
34:29
So in that sense, yeah, I think it lacks teeth.
34:34
Secondly, The fact that this inquiry has taken so long, I think, is partly due to the structure of the legislation. Not entirely, but, I mean, seven years. I mean, that's just beyond the pale. And I think also the fact that public hearings can only be held in exceptional circumstances. In this day and age, I think the better test should be...
34:59
as it is in other places, is it in the public interest to hold a public hearing? And part of that test is look at whether people's reputation will be unfairly damaged by having it in public. So I think it's become more sophisticated. There are better guidelines, but Victoria persists in the limitation of only exceptional circumstances for public hearings. So those three things, I think, uh, deprive this body of its effectiveness as it could be.
35:33
I mean, we've got to be fair. They can, of course, make findings of criminal conduct, but the question is whether you want your integrity bodies to be focusing only on criminal behaviour or whether you want them looking at corruption, integrity, good government, good behaviour on a wider basis, and I think the latter is preferable by far.
35:56
So one of the former commissioners, Robert Redlich, he has gone public and said that he argued for many years, as he said, did his predecessor, for the powers to be augmented, to be boosted to something like they have in New South Wales. That was certainly the view of the current commissioner, both very strong in that regard. And when the government does it, at what point does a government refusing to give the anti-corruption watchdog the powers it needs to fight corruption amount to corruption in itself?
36:34
That's an interesting one.
36:36
I suppose we've got to be fair. I mean, the legislation was passed by Parliament, so it wasn't just the government who's responsible for the legislation being narrower than it should be.
36:51
So, no, I think the answer is no. I wouldn't see it as corrupt because, after all, it did, as I say, still allow IBAC to look at criminal-based corrupt conduct, but it was just too narrow. And I think that that was partly due to self-interest by the government and the continued... over the years continued refusal to expand the legislation, although many people were critical of it, was also, I think, due in part to self-interest and political protection.
37:22
I can understand that parliamentarians don't want to be particularly exposed to public hearings and public findings, but, you know, that is self-interest. And I think the public interest requires that if you're going to have an integrity body, it's got to be an integrity body with teeth. It's got to have a wide path.
37:41
And in this case, unfortunately, that's not been the case. But I'm very pleased to see that the Liberal Party in Victoria said that they would now embrace a widening of this definition. And it now goes back to the new Premier in Victoria. Let's see whether his claim that his government is one of integrity, let's see him bring forward a bill. And everybody, I think, in Parliament will support it. The time is right, and it would be wonderful if that could happen.
38:12
Well, I hope you are right. Justice Willie, I'll leave it there. Thank you. Right before the break, let's have a look at your flags all around the country. As I said, front yards, backyards, on your truck, on your car, absolutely everywhere. They've been coming in. I've kept my team busy putting them up.
38:29
via the email, onto the system. You've got wonderful mementos there, some farm equipment you can see on the screen, but lots of connections with the military too. Proudly up on flagpoles, some beautiful backyards, I must say, some beautiful bits of Australia I'm seeing as they come flooding in. But One thing is consistent. In your emails to me, your messages with the photographs, you absolutely love this country and you are absolutely prepared to fight and defend it at the ballot box if required.
39:03
Aren't they magnificent? All right, we'll come back to more of those next week. After the break, real concern about personal security for Pauline Hanson. How much is this going to stop her campaigning in the activist breeding ground of Victoria?
39:20
Welcome back, still to come, the worrying rise of the socialist left in America with another pro-Palestinian candidate taking out the Michigan Democratic primary. But first, I want to turn to those scenes from Monday night. Left-wing activists straight out of central casting at the One Nation Victorian launch party protesting there out the front. Yes, I know Pauline Hanson's always copped protesters, but what we're seeing now and the personal slurs being hurled at it Looks like an escalation to me. And it all comes at a time that we're worried about the safety, aren't we, around the world of our politicians.
39:56
Joining me now is someone who knows a fair bit about this. He was once a close personal protection officer, a CPP, for politicians in the past. You know him well, David Craig. Former AFP Detective Superintendent, though. David, um... We've got some pictures on the screen. You know exactly what it's like, as I say, to give CPP support to politicians. There's you. You're dancing, though, with Pauline Hanson. I know you worked with other politicians as well. I mentioned she's always been controversial, right? So she's always had a level of protest.
40:28
But how would you assess things now compared to when you worked closely with her in the past?
40:35
Look, I think in the mid-'90s, Peter, it was a more sustained threat environment.
40:41
She was particularly disruptive in the political scene, whereas now I think everything is coming a little bit more to the centre and it's not as bad. However, we're a fair way from the election yet. The protests back in the mid-90s were, you know, things being thrown and not just daily debt threats, but multiple daily debt threats. And it was a matter of prioritising which was the worst and what needed to be actioned. I think that things will ramp up as we get closer to the election. But one thing for sure, no one on this planet will intimidate that woman.
41:12
Man, she is tough. She is a tough customer and she will not be intimidated. I can tell you that now.
41:20
It only takes one, though, and I look at the case of Anne Winnicombe in the United Kingdom, where police there have said they think it was someone motivated by left-wing ideology. We saw that a health CEO gunned down in New York. Again, left-wing ideology. The activist class on the left, you can't debate them, you can't reason with them, you can't even disagree. That's ramping up in this country in a way we haven't seen before.
41:50
Yeah, that's right, Peter. It is. They're becoming more brazen because I don't think that they've been met head-on with serious consequences yet as far as disrupting traffic and whatever it might be. But there are serious consequences if the left or any ideology wants to escalate things further.
42:08
Well, what about the defence business in Melbourne? We are told now there was an arson attack last year. We're told now it's being investigated as an act of far-left terrorism.
42:19
Well, that's a prime point, Peter, and it's very heartening to see that it demonstrates to the Australian public, or it should, that our terrorism laws are ideology neutral. So regardless of your ideology, if you meet the criteria, and it's a fairly high bar with terrorism, but if you breach that threshold and you can be looked at for terrorism charges, you can be looking at life in prison. So it's no longer just a little bit of a protest. You will face some serious law enforcement and court time, jail time. if you're convicted.
42:52
I need to get a comment on some things that Chris Minns had to say, vowing that he'd close a legal loophole. This is after the Supreme Court refused to place a supervision order on Yakub Ben Shabir, the nephew of slain ISIS terrorist Khalid Sharouf. Ben Shabir, and I want to run through this rap sheet again so people understand it, the man's background, convicted this year over a 24 assault of a gay couple, was later charged while on bail over an alleged cache of pro-ISIS material.
43:23
Those charges were dropped. And he was released in April on a conditional release order after he successfully appealed the sentence of that assault in 2024. The Premier says the terror laws must err on the side of public safety. I have to say I agree that So explain why a supervision order would generally have been sought by authorities, David.
43:47
Well, it's a civil order and it's done in respect to whether the Supreme Court assesses that there's an enduring and unacceptable risk of terrorism.
43:57
Now, it's good that Chris Minns has taken a step forward and to amend the legislation. I just would like to buy him an Uber pass to get to Canberra and show Tony Burke what to do so we could fix up this ISIS brides mess as well with the same sort of legislative amendments.
44:14
Have you heard any movement from the federal government to do exactly that?
44:20
No, I haven't, Peter. I haven't heard a thing. I have read the One Nation policy in its draft form of their protections against foreign fighters. And I think that that's a very sensible idea. It's moving from an executive decision to the court, and that's going to be more constitutionally acceptable. And I think it's got a lot of merit. And I think anyone to argue against that policy will have to come up with something very similar.
44:47
Very interesting there. I'll leave it, David. Thank you. All right, next up, that result out of Michigan. We want to pull that apart. Abdul Al Saeed. What does that mean for the future of the Democrats in the United States? The international panel coming up.
45:04
All right, it's been a monumental night in the United States. There has been a big win for Abdul El-Sayed in the Democratic Senate primary in Michigan. Donald Trump, well, didn't mince his words when he referenced El-Sayed.
45:19
Filth, crime, death, destruction, embarrassment. You lose your home, you lose your apartment, and that's where the Communists will take us 100%. When I watch Abdul, He's full of shit.
45:38
Yeah, I said he didn't mince his words there. I wasn't wrong. Contributor Koshi Gata and former Labor MP Michael Danby joined me. I don't like that sort of language from the leader. Let me be up front there. But I tell you what, the movement now to the radical, extreme, crazy left... Mm-hm. socialist left, communist left now for the Democratic Party bodes troublesome, not just for the United States, but I think for the Western world.
46:11
It is ascendant. It's not uniform, but it is ascendant. You have him, you have Maine, you have Maryland, Colorado, all these places. Mamdani, of course. Famous example, Wisconsin. They are ascendant. You could argue that it's actually now the mainstream wing of the Democrat Party because these candidates...
46:27
do have the momentum on their side. It's underpinned by demographics, which favor them in Michigan, in a big Muslim community, all of that. So this is a downstream consequence of that. It's also underpinned by economics. There's just a lot of young people that have economic despair. Can't get a job, can't buy a home. People like this come around and say, free health care for all. We're going to freeze rent. Sounds good. And then there's a third thing, too, where they are change candidates. They are charismatic. He is not bad looking, able to sell the message in a very concise way. And these establishment types that just go to Washington and stay there forever don't land anymore.
46:59
So it's a multilayered problem. But the wind is certainly in the sails of these types of candidates.
47:06
I still remember where I was when I watched the TV, I think we were half past ten at night, and saw planes fly into buildings in New York.
47:15
And I never thought in my lifetime I would see this happening, particularly in the United States, the commentary that he's had about Jews, about Israel, about the Western world, about defending freedom and democracy. Not just him, obviously, Mamdar and everyone else, Michael.
47:31
This must drive you to despair.
47:33
How quickly the young people at the three university towns who voted for El Saeed forget.
47:39
I agree with Bill Maher, the left-wing TV host, and James Carville, the architect of Clinton's two victories, that these DSA people are infiltrators. It's a different political party.
47:50
Remind people DSA...
47:51
the socialist alliance that these people all adhere to. They're taking over a centrist party. Now, I know Mike Rogers from our respective Intel Committee days, and he's a normal Republican, very good operator, only lost last time by 19,000 votes. I think...
48:12
Donors and all people in America who take this DSA threat seriously should get behind turning out working-class people and African-Americans who rule in Detroit who loathe these far-left types. So if you can get African-Americans and working-class people to outvote the university students, that's a political victory over these DSA people.
48:36
So that was going to be my next question. If the Democrats are going to persist and put these people up at the general election, the midterms obviously not so far away, what's going to be the general view of the electorate? Are they going to fly with the electorate?
48:49
The Democrats are really excellent at coming together, much more so than Republicans, when the primary fights are behind them and they're in the general. They put $80 million behind his opponent, who is a more mainstream, regular Democrat. You said that so quickly.
49:03
$80?
49:03
80 million. And I love that in Australia.
49:05
That's what we spent in a national election. In one Senate race.
49:08
So it's not that they're not backing the mainstream people, but she lost. Not by much, not by as much as the poll said, but she lost. However, come the midterms and even the presidential, which will start the day after the midterms, they will rally behind these people to win against Republicans and then try to infight after that the way Nancy Pelosi has been fighting with AOC and that will continue. But I think they're going to rally.
49:27
And a lot of normal people, including African-Americans in Detroit and working class people, don't agree with these far-left people. And it's up to Mike Rogers to rally the normal people against these DSA infiltrators.
49:39
Just quickly, Iran, this deal on the table, it looks like Iran could have a win.
49:45
The worst thing for Donald Trump would be to be perceived by Americans as a loser.
49:50
So I've been watching the American generals on Fox and they say there are alternative munitions which could be used if he wants to start the fight back. All he has to do is keep the Iranian economy turned off by keeping the blockade on, keep his nerve. I'm afraid you might be right, though, if he makes a deal... And it's seen to be to Iran's advantage. He will really be punished in the midterms by Americans who not only don't like the war, but don't like losers even more.
50:18
And he can't go tough on these Democratic characters if he's gone weak on Iran. Got to leave it there. Have a lovely weekend. Have a lovely weekend to you too. I'll see you bright and early, I was going to say. I'll see you. It won't be early. It was 6 o'clock, as usual, on Monday night. James McPherson sitting in for Andrew Bolt tonight. Enjoy.
